like healing, leeching, slowing enemy etc. Basically a lot skills helping them to survive while being melee. What wizard got? Slow time with huge cd? Thats amazing skill, but it got huge cd. What else? Lmk.
Did you see snuffint's excellent post? I'll condense it for you in case you missed it:
Diamond Skin
Energy Shield
Frost Nova
Ice Armor
Mirror Image
Ray of Frost
Slow Time
Wave of Force
I'd love to see you saying that wizards are squishy when you come across one stacking diamond skin/energy shield/blur/ice armor. There is TONS of survivability build into all of those skills, plus skill runes that augment them, plus potential traits that FURTHER augment them and give wizards additional melee survivability.
Now it's your turn. You claimed that monk & barb have all of the following:
1) healing
2) leeching
3) snaring
4) general melee surviving
Please list them out, and let's talk about them. Theory crafting debates using only generalities don't really work...|||Quote:
What's even more funny is that you bash other ppls posts and call them to be jokes without even say why.
This gotta be the most amazingly idiotic post I have seen so far in this forum.
OT: Why have you guys such a hard time seeing a wizard out dps:ing a barb or monk. I mean, the wizard is by far the most fragile class of the three, if not in the whole game. Both more fragile and lower DPS? I dont think so.
I would think it will come down to how you specc your char and how you use it rather than some class having higher dps as standard.
I think this has less to do with "out DPSing" and more to do with the claim that they'd whipe the floor with barbs and monks. Specifically, this is about them in melee with them, where they are at a tremendous disadvantage.|||Really guys, arguing with u is useless. Lets w8 for the game and see melee wizard in the pvp action.|||I think the big difference that might be neglected in this thread is that DPS does not only come from weaponry. It comes from spells as well.
E.G.
1 Barb has a melee axe that kills you in 1 hit.
1 wiz has 1 ranged spell that kills you in 2 hits.
I much rather prefer my ranged 2 hit kill wizard other than having to get close in order to swing my lethal axe.
They both fight but with different means. A wizard will never outmelee a barb and a barb will never outcast a wizard.
Might be best to stop comparing them as if they use the same ways of achieving their goal (kill).|||Quote:
I think this has less to do with "out DPSing" and more to do with the claim that they'd whipe the floor with barbs and monks. Specifically, this is about them in melee with them, where they are at a tremendous disadvantage.
I specifically responded to the claim that Wizards can't out dps a barb or monk in melee by the OP. You seem to agree with me there so I dont see why you complain.
Once again you say that barbs and monks will have a tremendous advantage over wizards in melee without specify how, why or in what way. This is just pure specualations and you have nothing to prove that you are right.
There are however clear indications that Blizzard is planning to make wizards do well in melee. They have been given pure melee traits and skills, and alot of defensive skills and traits to go with them. Why on earth would Blizzard give the Wizard that many melee oriented skills and traits if they planned on making the wizard have a "tremedous disadvantage" compared to other melee characters.
"We have been giving the wizard alot of melee skills and traits, but fans, dont fear, we are planning to make melee wizards useless. The traits and skills are just there for the amusement of seeing people try to make them viable." - Not gonna happen.
Atleast now, you seem to accept that a wizard can go melee. Thats always something.
Quote:
A wizard will never outmelee a barb and a barb will never outcast a wizard.
Might be best to stop comparing them as if they use the same ways of achieving their goal (kill).
Again, pure specualtions.
What a booring game you describe, where you have to play a class a certain way to be sucessful.
I would love to see a game where wizards have the ability to do just as good as a barb or monk in melee, where barbs can go weapon throw and seismic slam and runed versions of ancient spear to make a range barbarian viable, and where DHs can skip their bows entirely and go melee with fan of knives and gadgets.
Quote:
Really guys, arguing with u is useless. Lets w8 for the game and see melee wizard in the pvp action.
Yes, exactly. Lets wait and see before you laugh at someones post.
gr8 comeback BTW!|||Quote:
Really guys, arguing with u is useless. Lets w8 for the game and see melee wizard in the pvp action.
Yes it is useless because they thoroughly proved you wrong... and the words are 'you' not "u" and 'wait' not "w8"... learn to spell...
Good post, snurrfint, but don't forget there is also the Spectral Blade and Magic Weapon skills as well as the Weapon Master and Soul Split traits and I wouldn't be surprised to see the trait that increased dexterity to be converted to one that increases the new Defense stat... but yeah there's tons of melee-oriented wizard traits and skills (runed and otherwise) so I think a battle-mage/melee wizard build will be perfectly viable unless a lot has changed since last Blizzcon...|||Quote:
Yes it is useless because they thoroughly proved you wrong... and the words are 'you' not "u" and 'wait' not "w8"... learn to spell...
Good post, snurrfint, but don't forget there is also the Spectral Blade and Magic Weapon skills as well as the Weapon Master and Soul Split traits and I wouldn't be surprised to see the trait that increased dexterity to be converted to one that increases the new Defense stat... but yeah there's tons of melee-oriented wizard traits and skills (runed and otherwise) so I think a battle-mage/melee wizard build will be perfectly viable unless a lot has changed since last Blizzcon...
Please show me where exactly im wrong.
Quote:
Did you see snuffint's excellent post? I'll condense it for you in case you missed it:
Diamond Skin
Energy Shield
Frost Nova
Ice Armor
Mirror Image
Ray of Frost
Slow Time
Wave of Force
I'd love to see you saying that wizards are squishy when you come across one stacking diamond skin/energy shield/blur/ice armor. There is TONS of survivability build into all of those skills, plus skill runes that augment them, plus potential traits that FURTHER augment them and give wizards additional melee survivability.
Now it's your turn. You claimed that monk & barb have all of the following:
1) healing
2) leeching
3) snaring
4) general melee surviving
Please list them out, and let's talk about them. Theory crafting debates using only generalities don't really work...
I already explained in my last post, in case u missed it, i repeat :
1. HP pool. Wizard got the lowest
2. Skills
Diamond Skin - just a minor increase of your hp for some seconds
Energy Shield - if u will use it on melee wizard, u will lack a lot of AP for your "big nukes" (u will get hits)
Frost Nova - i explained in my last post. Big cooldown + pvp crowd control nerf. (u will NOT be able to freeze players like u freeze monsters)
Ice Armor - same as nova.
Freezing in general - barbs can break crowd control effects. I belive monks will too (because they are melee).
Mirror Image - very nice skill, but how it helps u to tank out the huge melee damage? Let me know
Ray of Frost - very nice skill, still, what it has to do with melee wizard ability to survive? Explain pleaseh
Slow Time - very amazing, but dont forget u are in melee range with your enemy (u are melee wizard), so they will hit u anyway. With lower speed ofcourse.
Wave of Force - if u will push your enemy away, how will u hit him? U are melee, man.
Here are some barb skills, so u can note the difference.
Ground Stomp
This defensive skill causes the Barbarian to stomp his foot, crushing the earth and stunning all nearby enemies. With runestones it can add damage, knockback, and more.
Description: Shakes the ground, stunning all enemies within X feet for X seconds.
Ignore Pain
A shout, this skill reduces all damage taken and grants immunity to most debuffs.
Description: Reduces all damage taken by X% and grants immunity to root, snare and stun effects for X seconds.
Revenge
A melee skill, this one becomes available when when the Barbarian is hit. It deals a fast spinning hit that can strike multiple enemies for considerable damage. It is an active skill; you must trigger it each time to make it work; it doesn't just activate automatically when you are struck.
Description: When hit, there is a X% chance the Barbarian may strike all enemies within X feet, dealing X% weapon damage and gaining X% health for each enemy hit.
Leap Attack
A deadly fast attack, this one allows the Barbarian to leap into attack, moving far faster than running speed, as well as vaulting over obstacles or monsters between him and his prey.
Description: The Barbarian makes a mighty leap, causing X% weapon damage to all enemies within X feet upon landing.
Sprint
A shout that buffs the Barbarian with extra movement speed.
Description: Grants X% speed boost for X seconds.
Threatening Shout
A shout that debuffs enemies, lowering their damage.
Description: Shouts with great ferocity, reducing damage done by enemies within X feet by X% for X seconds.
Ancient Spear
"Get over here!" A spear on a chain, hurled to skewer enemies and drag them closer. Runestones can add the ability to skewer multiple enemies on a single spear. This skill should really be called "Ancient Harpoon" since harpoons have barbs and ropes to pull in the aquatic life form they are used to skewer. Spears have neither barbs nor ropes attached.
Description: Throws a spear with a maximum range of X feet, pulling each target back to the Barbarian, slowing movement speed and dealing X-X damage.
Battle Rage
A shout that provides a damage boost and critical hit improvement for a short duration.
Description: Enter a rage which provides a X% damage boost and X% critical hit bonus for X seconds.
Furious Charge
A very fast moving charge attack, enabling the Barbarian to pass through enemies on the way to his target.
Description: Charge directly at an enemy causing X% weapon damage to them and X% damage to enemies in the way.
Taunt (doubt it will work for pvp =()
A shout that overrides monster AI, causing them to rush towards the Barbarian and launch weakened melee attacks.
Description: Taunt monsters to attack you at close range for X seconds. Taunted monsters do X% less damage while taunted.
Whirlwind
The classic Diablo 2 skill, this one allows the Barbarian to whirl in a moving circle, landing multiple hits to anything in range.
Description: The Barbarian swirls in a cyclone, delivering multiple attacks to everything in his path with each hit doing X% weapon damage.
Wrath of the Berserker
This shout grants higher stats and enables the Barbarian to partially break monster immunities.
Description: Enter a heightened sense of fury, raising several stats (Critical Hit, Attack Speed, Dodge Chance, Movement Speed) for X seconds. Monsters with damage immunities will take X% less damage from the Barbarian's attacks rather than being immune.|||o.O So far, this has been back and forth speculation. We don't know that Wizards can cast everything at the speed of light and have all defense making them invulnerable while simultaneously managing to out perform Barbs and Monks on every level of char design.
The skeptics have a right to question this claim.|||Quote:
Good post, snurrfint, but don't forget there is also the Spectral Blade and Magic Weapon skills as well as the Weapon Master and Soul Split traits and I wouldn't be surprised to see the trait that increased dexterity to be converted to one that increases the new Defense stat... but yeah there's tons of melee-oriented wizard traits and skills (runed and otherwise) so I think a battle-mage/melee wizard build will be perfectly viable unless a lot has changed since last Blizzcon...
I left those skills out because they were too obvious.
One skill however that is overlooked in a melee situation is hydra.
In a melee situation, both contenders have to stand still to deal dmg. Imagine having a couple of hydras just blasting at your standing still enemy while dealing dmg to them with other skills like magic weapon or spectral blade.
Also, they can be used to scout, by placing them at the edges of the screen and see if they start shooting. And to slow down your enemies at range with either the cold version, or the arcane one toghether with the trait that makes arcane slow down enemies.|||Battle-Wizard, will probably be my 3rd build after testing out the Monk and having a go with the Wizard doing the "normal" Wizard build, just to get use to the Wizard skills. Because aside from the Monk, this build with the Wizard is just the coolest thing ever!
I think if Blizzard went the route of doing a Battle-Mage class (not as a build but rather as a character focus) I would have played that character first. Its just a pretty exiting, fresh approach to melee battle and its awesome
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