I thought Moonfrost's comment, from the main page thread, did an excellent job summing up what's wrong with the wizard's skill tree at this point.
The wizard needs some skill type diversity. She needs some conditional active skills similar to those of the barbarian (�when X occurs, you have Y seconds to cast spell Z for a bonus effect�) to break up the monotony of constantly using active skills that are always available. She needs some conditional passive skills that provide a temporary change in playstyle (�when hit, there�s a X% chance player run/walk/cast speed will be increased by Y%�). She needs some skills that alter the way in which the damage is delivered rather than just increasing the damage (skills that give certain spells a chance to pierce, skills that increase casting speed). There are many ways to improve the current skill tries and give them what they need the most - variety.
Yes, runes will cover some of those problems but runes shouldn�t be there to fix problems, they should be there to provide customization. Additions to viable skills rather than band-aids.
My take on this:
Conditional active and passive skills fit the Barbarian much more, the Wizard is not a tank and needs to have full support from her skills all the time. I wouldnt want to see a lot of these on the Wizard, if anything just one really cool and useful conditional skill, but not more.
I agree however that we are missing faster cast rate, piercing skills which were there last year and got removed (Penetrating Spells, Arcane Weakness, Spell Speed, Arcane Speed, Lightning Speed). However, runes and item affixes will play a huge part in this, as will many other things, Im sure. Why cram a skill tree with 50 skills just for the sake of so called diversity, we can get elsewhere? Blizzard stress simplicity in *certain areas* of the game. I saw last years skill tree as confusing myself.
I dont see runes as bandaids, they will add both customisation and all other necessary effects to spells/skills.
There are 5 types of runes, and a lot and a lot of combinations and effects, for each skill. Runes in just one skill could add all the passives we ever need, FCR, piercing, and cooldown decreases. What else would you need that isnt listed in present passives?
I still think we wont reach endgame build by level 40. Blizzard's aim is pretty far away from that, and we know all this very well. There is a very good reason for the current skill tree being this way, I have nothing but faith in a company like Blizzard. There are so many different game mechanics and game systems (socketables, scrolls, shrines, quest rewards, amongst many things) and item specifics we dont know about yet, that are in D3, that all we can or should say is 'it seems like this and this', rather than 'it is like this and this, and therefore it needs this and this'.|||Quote:
and i kind of agree with Flux some class look really dull now and pretty much lack diversity compared to the old way....im not a big fan of noobing a game so more retarded people that just dont have the devotion or that dont even have the guts to actually make an effort to actually accomplish something in their game...but this simplicity of some build is just rediculous and other like the said Wiz tree is really full of ability and that make me really sad since the barb actually looked 100x better then D2 barb and actually looked fun to play....now if they all end up with the same cookie cutter build it remove alots of fun and tons of diversity
you know there will always be that powerfull cookie cutter build but you also have these FUN build that are really awesome and even some challenging to play and some other that require certain gear to actually be viable...now this just remove alots of these element....but i really doubt they will leave it like that since its pretty crappy for a char building system imo it offer poor replayability and tons of other dissadvantage...well i hope it change
im not a big fan of noobing a game so more retarded people that just dont have the devotion or that dont even have the guts to actually make an effort to actually accomplish something in their game ---> What are they noobing exactly? Who is a retard? Some people dont like a huge skill tree or over complexity, doesnt mean they dont make the effort or arent dedicated to the game, quite the opposite. What has a huge diverse skill tree gotta with effort or game devotion? You can do that with a small skill tree and add diversity in a million other aspects of the game. That was a pretty ignorant statement, in my opinion :P
Diablo 3 will offer a lot of fun builds and keep the cookie cutter to a minimum .... I can see it happening. A cookie cutter is based on many things, not just skills. There is stats and equipment too, and I dont need to remind you what changes have been made in this department. Having said that however, cookie cutters will always exist anyway, there are flaws in every game system and in our case it includes finding a cookie cutter build no matter the game restrictions .... but when compared to the other possible varied and fun builds I think and hope this game will offer, cookie cutters will be and should be to a minimum.|||Quote:
didint the sorc have like 5 skill for melee sorc? 3 of these maxed?
Well, the only "actual" melee skill the sorc had was enchant. Now you also had fire mastery and warmth, both of which were maxed out for extra damage with enchant. But these skills aren't actual melee skills so I didn't mention them. Enchant is the main skill, and it just gets boosted by fire mastery and warmth, but the last two skills don't offer any direct benefits to a melee sorc, but rather indirect benefits by boosting the damage of your enchant skill.
Other skills a melee sorc could find useful were energy shield and the 3 frost armor type skills. Energy shield uses the sorc's mana to absorb damage which is useful to a melee sorc, and the frost armor skills offer extra melee protection.
So yes, a melee sorc does have access to another 4 skills that are useful in melee, 3 of which are mostly maxed (enchant, warmth, fire mastery), and 2 of which are optional (frost armors, energy shield). I just didn't mention them because I was thinking straight offensive melee skills.
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I still think we wont reach endgame build by level 40. Blizzard's aim is pretty far away from that, and we know all this very well. There is a very good reason for the current skill tree being this way, I have nothing but faith in a company like Blizzard. There are so many different game mechanics and game systems (socketables, scrolls, shrines, quest rewards, amongst many things) and item specifics we dont know about yet, that are in D3, that all we can or should say is 'it seems like this and this', rather than 'it is like this and this, and therefore it needs this and this'.
Pretty much what he said, and I agree. There are simply so many things that could change everything about our current views, that we can only guess. But we have nothing concrete, still.
I also believe blizzard will make an amazing game. They did it so far, and they'll do it again.|||Something very unique with D2 was the customization. The skill system with big skill point caps and diminishing returns, as well as so many item effects on every item, made you able to think of hundreds of builds. The riftadin, the Wf zon, the kingslayer sorc etc... You could base builds on items, which was one thing I definitely liked about D2. And the skills had such wide non-straightforward effects (like the sorcs masteries boosting elemental weapon damage).
This D3 lacks, but I have to be realistic. The customization in D2 also lead it to be a very messy game (it really was). It's kinda impossible to copy, and I'm quite satisfied with what blizz have done with D3. It will be very different form D2, it's a bit more mainstream now, but it's necessary|||Quote:
Something very unique with D2 was the customization. The skill system with big skill point caps and diminishing returns, as well as so many item effects on every item, made you able to think of hundreds of builds. The riftadin, the Wf zon, the kingslayer sorc etc... You could base builds on items, which was one thing I definitely liked about D2. And the skills had such wide non-straightforward effects (like the sorcs masteries boosting elemental weapon damage).
This D3 lacks, but I have to be realistic. The customization in D2 also lead it to be a very messy game (it really was). It's kinda impossible to copy, and I'm quite satisfied with what blizz have done with D3. It will be very different form D2, it's a bit more mainstream now, but it's necessary
I dont know what you mean *exactly* by mainstream, but I agree with everything else,
except .... what does this D3 lack? Customisation? Blizzard have said they more than will make up for the lack of manual statting and low skill caps and other reasons that seem to be crippling custom builds with various other ways (better ways to quote them) and we havent seen / dont know what these are yet. So how can you say it lacks at this point?
If anything, we are lacking in a lot of info!|||lumpor, hand over your time machine.
Because otherwise, really, you are complaining about lack of item based builds without having even the smallest hint of what items actually will look like at high levels in D3.
There is almost no difference between your statement and the statement "Diablo 3 will miss out on those vibrant and diverse environments that Diablo 2 had because it only has 2 acts."|||It wasn't even a complaint
|||Well, guys, we may assume a lot of things, but for now we lack major amounts of info on DIII, so we can only assume. But we don't know anything for sure.I am actually 100% sure that blizzard will definitely make up for the lack of free stat distribution. Let's not assume that the game will have less customization just because they changed it in some ways from the previous Diablo. Besides, I know blizzard, and I am confident that they will give us major customization options through other means.|||Quote:
It wasn't even a complaint
If you prefer, I can call it a statement with nonexistent basis in reality that demonstrated that you liked something in D2 and believe that it will no longer be in D3.|||If they would increase the very tiny skill cap of 5 to a more reasonable one of 10, that would fix everything imo. They could add as many actives as they want. 5 is so close to 1 that skills are almost like 1 point wonders because they're so easy to max. Imo, each skill should start with at least 10 skill cap which can later be increased to 15 or w/e.
Player A: "What kind of wiz are you?"
Player B: "magic missile, hydra, meteor, electricute, blizzard, tornado, stone skin, all relavant passives maxed."
Player A: "Why did you max meteor? You already got hydra for fire damage."
Player B: "Nothing else to spend the points on, really."
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