Both, I think all the classes need some more actives. Especially the Barb, that guy is going to be boring to play if he doesn't get a few more. And then the wizard needs more passives too. I'm thinking 40 skills for each class, or 42 to divide equally among the 3 trees.
I thought last years trees were great(not counting WD of course, and after getting rid of improved mm/cb/sp anyway) except they needed about 3-4 more active skills per class, disappointed there weren't a few new ones this year. The trees also just look so empty right now.
I see, your opinion is interesting. I actually tend to see it the other way around, its now a very well balanced tree of 30 to 35 skills of focused, useful ideas. Of course Wizard needs some passive love, for sure
Personally, I felt like there were too many useless or repetitive skills last year ... useless for Wizard and too repetitive for Barbarian. Barbarian had a lot of just straight up damage or critical damage passives, or even damage passives to specific skills (Mighty Hammer, Seismic Effect, Relentless Attacks), while Wizard had many similar skills or sort of useless (in a way) skills, which if you read my comparison above and the notes with it you will see why. Some of them were very interesting though, like Mana Burst and the melee oriented passives.
Wouldnt mind an extra 7 skills to make it 42
Or back to 54 haha! That will actually use up the whole skill tree, 6 tiers x 3 skills x 3 = 54. But too many skills = epic confusion, and Blizzard keep stressing simplicity in this game, and this is one example where I agree. So 42 sounds OK, in a way, any more could be crazy.|||Quote:They can only increase an extra of 5 skills to be in line with the Barb or WD. Unless they plan to add a few to those, I doubt it though, the skill tree seems solid this year for all builds.
Strongly disagree. Wiz is viable now, with such a huge array of actives, but the math doesn't work. Level 70 wizard would have max 5 points in what, like 12 skills? There are only 8 hotkeys (1-5, LMB, RMB, Tab), and the game design is to have chars using 6-8 main skills regularly. And the Wiz is the most complete!
Barb is very limited on actives until level 20ish, and right now every lvl 50+ Barb would have the same 4 or 5 actives, albeit with some variety in passives.
WD is harder to predict, with half the lvl 15+ skills NYI and never before seen, but early on there was a shortage of active skills, and the only viable build was Mongrels to tank with some mix and match selection of the 4 or 5 actives.
I expect most of the current Barb and WD skills to remain in the game, but I sincerely hope they add a lot more, actives especially. That's needed for variety in builds.
I also think/hope they'll stretch out and extend the skill trees. If skills max out with just 5 points (or so) then why have the highest level at 30? That made sense in D2 with 20 points to max, and usually 2 or 3 from lvl 24 and 30 to fill out. But 5 points to max in D3 = final game build by level 40, and then just adding passives and support from there on out?|||Quote:
Strongly disagree. Wiz is viable now, with such a huge array of actives, but the math doesn't work. Level 70 wizard would have max 5 points in what, like 12 skills? There are only 8 hotkeys (1-5, LMB, RMB, Tab), and the game design is to have chars using 6-8 main skills regularly. And the Wiz is the most complete!
Barb is very limited on actives until level 20ish, and right now every lvl 50+ Barb would have the same 4 or 5 actives, albeit with some variety in passives.
WD is harder to predict, with half the lvl 15+ skills NYI and never before seen, but early on there was a shortage of active skills, and the only viable build was Mongrels to tank with some mix and match selection of the 4 or 5 actives.
I expect most of the current Barb and WD skills to remain in the game, but I sincerely hope they add a lot more, actives especially. That's needed for variety in builds.
I also think/hope they'll stretch out and extend the skill trees. If skills max out with just 5 points (or so) then why have the highest level at 30? That made sense in D2 with 20 points to max, and usually 2 or 3 from lvl 24 and 30 to fill out. But 5 points to max in D3 = final game build by level 40, and then just adding passives and support from there on out?
All true. But I just dont see them narrowing the list down from 50+ skills down to 30+ skills, and then taking it back up to 40+ next year.
I dont think the final game build will be reached by level 40 just by putting 5 points into all lvl 30 or active skills by then. Runes and the extra skill caps from items (up to level 15 I believe) are gonna play a huge part in skill customisation, and the high end runes and items with those affixes may have level requirements of 60 and beyond.|||Quote:
As for a melee wizard build you are right, they dropped a lot of those passive ideas for it, but maybe the devs felt that there was no way they could make a melee wizard build really viable. I could stand to be corrected though, we still have Magic Weapon and Spectral Blade.
You know, one thing is, that stat distributiin is not made by players anymore. You don't get 5 points per level to distribute among your stats as you see fit. Stats now automatically increase upon reaching a new level, and that's that.
We can expect the wizard to have quite low "natural" HP, with gear boosting it somewhat. If we want a melee wizard it's gonna be hard because melee chars need very high HP, and the wizard's naturally low HP will be an issue there.
In DII, it wasn't that much of an issue because you could distribute stat points and have a high vitality if you wanted. This is not the case with DIII, and thus I believe that making a melee wizard will pose more of a difficulty in DIII than DII.
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I also think/hope they'll stretch out and extend the skill trees. If skills max out with just 5 points (or so) then why have the highest level at 30? That made sense in D2 with 20 points to max, and usually 2 or 3 from lvl 24 and 30 to fill out. But 5 points to max in D3 = final game build by level 40, and then just adding passives and support from there on out?
Yep, pretty much this. They need more actives for variety, like you said, plus, it would be quite sad and boring if you could reach you final build by level 40.
Either that, or increase the skill cap to 15 points in each skill, so that way the problem would be solved. Perhaps even a 10 point cap, because like they said, they want us to have more actives in order to be able to deal with immunities better than we were capable of in DII. A 10 point skill cap, I believe, would be ideal, if we assume that the latest wizard skill tree is the final one, or at least that the final version of the skill tree will be similar to this.
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Strongly disagree. Wiz is viable now, with such a huge array of actives, but the math doesn't work. Level 70 wizard would have max 5 points in what, like 12 skills? There are only 8 hotkeys (1-5, LMB, RMB, Tab), and the game design is to have chars using 6-8 main skills regularly. And the Wiz is the most complete!
I hope they add more hotbuttons. If you can only have a max of 8 hotbuttons, I don't know, that doesn't sounds like a lot to me. I'm not saying it's a small amount, but I believe we should have more than 8. And I also believe more than 8 may be a necessity. Having 6-8 active skills at any one time is good, but I believe that especially the wizard class may end up using more than that.
We already know that even on low levels, wizards have a large amount of actives. What happens on higher levels, there could be much more. And they said themselves they wanna give us more actives to effectively deal with immunities. Somehow I have the feeling that we'll need more than 8 hotkeys, if not for the active skills, then maybe for potions or other useful items we will want quick access to.|||As ancalagon said, there will be some way to increase skill caps (either singly or as a sweeping change) to 10 and then up to 15. Bashiok and the devs have not explained the mechanics, but this has been mentioned before.|||Well, in that case, it's all good.|||****! They removed the melee skills from the conjuring tree. I was really looking forward to those skills. I thought the melee sorcs were kinda fun in D2, and now that there would be official melee wizards recognized by the developers...
Wish they would've kept them|||I thought Moonfrost's comment, from the main page thread, did an excellent job summing up what's wrong with the wizard's skill tree at this point.
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The wizard has far too many active (attack) skills and not enough of everything else. The player is not only overwhelmed by all the choices; many of them overlap in functionality as well, making some redundant. The way the current trees look, I’m getting the impression the developers were more or less trying to see how much cool damage spells they could fit in time for Blizzcon, rather than making balanced skill trees.
The wizard needs some skill type diversity. She needs some conditional active skills similar to those of the barbarian (“when X occurs, you have Y seconds to cast spell Z for a bonus effect”) to break up the monotony of constantly using active skills that are always available. She needs some conditional passive skills that provide a temporary change in playstyle (“when hit, there’s a X% chance player run/walk/cast speed will be increased by Y%”). She needs some skills that alter the way in which the damage is delivered rather than just increasing the damage (skills that give certain spells a chance to pierce, skills that increase casting speed). There are many ways to improve the current skill tries and give them what they need the most - variety.|||Quote:
****! They removed the melee skills from the conjuring tree. I was really looking forward to those skills. I thought the melee sorcs were kinda fun in D2, and now that there would be official melee wizards recognized by the developers...
Wish they would've kept them
Hey don't fret, the sorceress in DII only had 1 single melee skill, and melee sorceresses could deal some of the highest damage in the game by using enchant, elemental damage and elemental masteries.|||Quote:
Hey don't fret, the sorceress in DII only had 1 single melee skill, and melee sorceresses could deal some of the highest damage in the game by using enchant, elemental damage and elemental masteries.
didint the sorc have like 5 skill for melee sorc? 3 of these maxed?
and i kind of agree with Flux some class look really dull now and pretty much lack diversity compared to the old way....im not a big fan of noobing a game so more retarded people that just dont have the devotion or that dont even have the guts to actually make an effort to actually accomplish something in their game...but this simplicity of some build is just rediculous and other like the said Wiz tree is really full of ability and that make me really sad since the barb actually looked 100x better then D2 barb and actually looked fun to play....now if they all end up with the same cookie cutter build it remove alots of fun and tons of diversity
you know there will always be that powerfull cookie cutter build but you also have these FUN build that are really awesome and even some challenging to play and some other that require certain gear to actually be viable...now this just remove alots of these element....but i really doubt they will leave it like that since its pretty crappy for a char building system imo it offer poor replayability and tons of other dissadvantage...well i hope it change
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