Then PvP would be a completely boring, mindless "who has better equipment" fest with zero existing counter-play to an opponent's actions outside dodging projectiles.
Better an intelligently designed counter system (doesn't have to be like WoW) than PvP gameplay that's basically PvM against enemies who run away to pick up health orbs.
I thought D2's PvP wasn't bad. Snares were limited due to CBF, and slow from items like Cleglaws was banned/looked down upon. Holy Freeze was the only time I turned blue when dueling. I suppose there were a few skills with stun, but I didn't really encounter many Mind Blast assassins or smiters when I dueled.
I suspect we will see various skills that break, reduce, or prevent various snares, CCs and stuns, such as Obsidian WW. We might see items that reduce the duration of snares, CC and stuns. There might be a possibility of diminishing returns, so for example stun is effective, but stun lock is not really possible.
I expect snares, CC and stuns to play a role in the arena, but not a dominating role.|||We'll see. Though, it will take effort on Blizzard's side to make them the not dominating role.|||Quote:
We'll see. Though, it will take effort on Blizzard's side to make them the not dominating role.
Not really. Diminishing returns, items that reduce duration and abilities that make you immune/resistant to CC/Snares/Stuns.
There were a handful of slows, snares, stuns in D2, and none played a dominating role in D2 PvP.
Though I didn't waste my time on 1.10+ Enigma PvP, so things could have changed.|||Diablo 2 didn't as much keep stuns/slows balanced as much as completely butchered them for PvP at the fundamental level. AFAIK, there is no such thing as a true CC effect in Diablo 2 PvP outside slows. Stuns were a hit-recovery animation lock which is a world apart from what an actual stun is supposed to do.
If we have genuine "I press button and if you got hit, you can't do anything for x seconds" disables, it will take real work to balance durations and availability of counters to prevent absolute disable dominance. First, you have to nerf chaining of disables in a way that doesn't render them pointless when coupled with existence of abilities that cleanse them; and next, you have to make sure that such disables don't end up guarantying a victory in a fight through the "stun followed by huge damage spike" tactics.
I think it's a fine line between keeping disables relevant and keeping disables from being dominant. But, again, we will see.|||Quote:
Not really. Diminishing returns, items that reduce duration and abilities that make you immune/resistant to CC/Snares/Stuns.
There were a handful of slows, snares, stuns in D2, and none played a dominating role in D2 PvP.
Though I didn't waste my time on 1.10+ Enigma PvP, so things could have changed.
Somebody's never played a sin.|||Quote:
Somebody's never played a sin.
ye, sins > d2 pvp just because of mind blast spam (which is exactly stunning effect), thats a fact|||Quote:
Diablo 2 didn't as much keep stuns/slows balanced as much as completely butchered them for PvP at the fundamental level. AFAIK, there is no such thing as a true CC effect in Diablo 2 PvP outside slows. Stuns were a hit-recovery animation lock which is a world apart from what an actual stun is supposed to do.
If we have genuine "I press button and if you got hit, you can't do anything for x seconds" disables, it will take real work to balance durations and availability of counters to prevent absolute disable dominance. First, you have to nerf chaining of disables in a way that doesn't render them pointless when coupled with existence of abilities that cleanse them; and next, you have to make sure that such disables don't end up guarantying a victory in a fight through the "stun followed by huge damage spike" tactics.
I think it's a fine line between keeping disables relevant and keeping disables from being dominant. But, again, we will see.
I just don't see the need to walk that fine line. Being on the receiving end of disables in PvP simply is not fun. D2 PvP was awesome because disables were limited/ineffective for the height of PvP (1.09). However, D2 PvP sucked when you faced someone that could disable your character (Burizon with Cleglaws/Blackhorns comes to mind)|||This is turning into a PvP thread. Interesting
, though a little OT 
|||The biggest issue of Ray of Frost vs. Disintegrate, that I didn't see anyone mention yet, is piercing.Disintegrate's real strength is the instant speed of it. You can just devastate distant enemies, especially weak ranged stuff like archers, since your Disintegrate hits them instantly, and you can cook them before they get off more than one shot. Very different than using projectiles or AoE on them, where you'd have to get closer, dodge their shots, work around other enemies, aim at moving targets, etc.
Plus Disintegrate pierces any number of enemies, though the damage drops 20% with each one, so nothing in your LoS is ever really out of range or safe from your attack.
So does Ray of Frost work that way? Dunno, since we've not had it to test in a demo, and there aren't any enemies in these movies. I'd assumed it was not full screen piercing, like Disintegrate. Since that just seemed OP; if you could instantly chill or freeze essentially infinite monsters. Certainly all of a pack in any given quarter or third of the screen.
Since none of the rune effects offer piercing on this skill... either it already has piercing like Disintegrate, or Bliz agrees that RoF with piercing is OP, so it's not an option. (Or maybe there's a way to give it some piercing with eq, or it gains more piercing with higher slvls?) We won't know until we see it in action, or at least read the full skill tool tip description.|||Pierce with Freeze sounds overpowered. Pierce with Slow sounds more reasonable, or even some area of effect of slow or freeze around the Ray of Frost target, like with for example "Glacial Spike" in Diablo II.
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